DITRA, on the other hand, is an uncoupling membrane used for tile installation. The KERDI-SHOWER-TS features an off-center drain placement and is 1-1/2" (38 mm) high. Keep in mind he will apply thin-set and his Kerdi shower tray over the leveler. Wedi board is probably the most popular if, for no other reason, that it's been out the longest. Glass tiles are unique products and may require special consideration. Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. The only time I've used Ultraflex with a Schluter product is when I adhere Ditra to a plywood substrate, if you put Ditra over a SLC you need to go back to unmodified. Manufacturers generally recommend that the deflection of the subfloor system be limited to no more than span/360 under total load. That is where the DITRA uncoupling membrane comes in. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in conjunction with ceramic and stone tile coverings. Tiles can be installed directly on KERDI using the thin-bed method. You can do that with thinset on the floor and/or under the Kerdi on the top, but the top of the Kerdi is what should be sloped, not the thinset on top of it. Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 4. Some suggest marble is not recommended for showers. The nominal 5/16 (8mm) thickness minimizes tile assembly thickness. Mix up the thinset with water until you get your desired consistency. Well damn. If you intend to install another type of floor, such as hardwood, there is no need for DITRA. Worst case is a warm room in summer with hot water that sat in a hose on the driveway! I'll get some pics up over the weekend (batterys dead in camera).. You've got 1/4" Hardi down, but no tile yet, correct? Quick update to everyone that has been of help to me. You can do it either way. The simple answer is yes. Very important points Jadnashua has pointed out. Because of the benefits mentioned above, DITRA is perfect for surfaces about to be tiled over. He uses Custom's Versabond under Kerdi without any problems. OSB, though slightly different from plywood, it is still a wood product. The KERDI-SHOWER-TS features an off-center drain How to Market Your Business with Webinars? Thanks Kevin. Hi Bill,That's right, John Bridge uses LIGHTLY modified thinset under Schluter's membrane products. Im installing Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my shower. Does unmodified thinset stick to plywood? Its relatively thin. View Full Version : kerdi foam shower tray over OSB. Prior to setting tile, wait 24 hours to allow for final set of the mortar before testing to ensure waterproof performance of the assembly at seams and connections. Schluter- KERDI-DS is a bonded waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder with very low water vapor permeance for use in continuous-use steam rooms and similar applications. Danny, this the same master bath you have an earlier thread about? Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Seems like a decent choice when no other is readily available. I am out of level less than 1/4" from side to side and I'm going over OSB. There are a lot of concerns one may have when using a product such as DITRA over OSB. The system can also be customized with floor heating cables to create a warm, luxurious tile floor. Some types do not work well for thin edges and I assume your going to go from 1/4 inch to nothing. over expansion joints or construction joints. Send us an email: . A minimum of nominal plywood or OSB thickness installed Sure, grey might be "OK," but why chance it for less than 20 bucks? ?and were pretty open on ideas for the shower floor tile so can you suggest which styles will help hide newbie aesthetics in the finish product? Yes. Silicone or sand caulk in the corners since its a change of plain. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. Im thinking the epoxy route is the way to go. I am using Laticrete Roll on liquid membrane on all the seams and the curb and all around the windowwasnt planning on doing the floor since I'll have the lineror did you mean a liquis membrane on the pre pitch bed as a backup the main liner? That would be ideal for me right now. It really is pretty easy. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Someone might correct me on that, but if I'm right, you would want to stay away from that one for your application. 4. The latter is ideal for structural and load-bearing applications such as floors. :). For complete installation guidelines and warranty criteria for KERDI in showers, steam showers, and bathtub surrounds or KERDI-DS in steam rooms , please download the Schluter- Systems Shower System Installation Handbook and view the installation videos available below. Follow the Wood Underlayment installation guidelines as found in the Schluter-DITRA or Schluter-DITRA-HEAT Installation Handbooks for fastening guidelines. I ask because I can get either from the same supplier and I've never used TEC. Specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations, DITRA provides effective uncoupling protection, preventing cracked tiles and grout. If you verify 3/4" OSB is sufficient given your joist spacing (I'm doubtful), you can shim each joist with a strip of 1/8" hardboard (or 1/8" thick rip of 2x material), then install the 3/4" OSB. Therefore, it really wont raise the OSB floor very high. Only use Schluter screws and washers to attach KERDI-BOARD to the studs. In that case, you can use DITRA in kitchens and showers with OSB floors. Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. I'll be sure to let everyone know if/when I find out the hard way! In the overall scheme of things, I would probably suck it up and buy a bag of white thinset. houndzilla DITRA allows for ceramic tile application over single-layer plywood or OSB subfloors on joists spaced up to 19.2" (488 mm) o.c. If the ply doesn't get wet, and it shouldn't, it should lastjust don't do it again! The material is equally suitable for creating level substrates in floor renovation projects e.g. Can you tile over Kerdi membrane? Tile will go over the kerdi. Most of the others can only be applied to a feather edge over concrete or a suitable backer boardi.e., not over a subfloor. "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Waterproofing Corners: Schluter-KERDI-KERECK, 1. Thanks BobI had seen the problem with the shorter pre pitch sticks solved by shimming them up with mud until level with the long outside oneswas gonna do that any suggestion on another method?maybe I'll shim em up with extra lath now that I know need that in there? The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, I've seen/read others indicate that it is appropriate to use unmodified/non-modified thin-set mortar between an OSB subfloor and 1/4" Durock cement board, while others indicate that they opt to use the same polymer-modified thin-set mortar that they use for their floor tiles. - M.K. Neither one absorbs moisture and both offer some interesting features (glow in the dark! While the detail images below demonstrate options for KERDI-DRAIN, please note that raising the bathroom floor is also possible with KERDI-LINE. We just read the article in Fine Homebuilding No. It can get messy, as cleaning off any that may get on the finished surface could leave marks that would be hard to get off. 1) The preslope is tapered at a 1/4" per foot pitch. Please refer to the Schluter-Shower System Installation Handbook How long do I have to wait before I can install tile on the Schluter-KERDI membrane? Point drain with integrated bonding flange. It's pretty easy to resize pics with this utility. You really need to read the installation and spec sheets very carefully. For floor/wall connections, use KERDI-BAND. (Explained), Can You Use RedGard Over Plywood? When to use Kerdi band after mortar installation? Made of polyethylene, DITRA and DITRA-XL serve as a waterproofing layer that protects moisture-sensitive substrates, such as plywood/OSB. The gridlines printed on the surface are helpful for neat and quick installation. There are different types of OSB, from OSB1 to OSB3. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Mark the slope or high point on the walls. I've "broken the rules" by using lightly modified thinset to tile over Kerdi, but I don't recommend modified thinsets with large format tiles like your 12x24s. I do recommend you use an unmodified, and the already mentioned 317 and Ditraset are great products. I'll recommend Mapei's Kerabond as a very good unmodified thinset too. Then fill in the rest and slope it to the drain. Do I need to tape the joints between panels before installing the KERDI? A quality unmodified thinset should be used and mixed with a latex additive. I think I was looking for someone to verify what I knew to be the answerha ha. Use Thinset With a Higher Latex Content Thinset is the wet base that you first trowel on the plywood to make the tile stick. Kerdi is a sheet-applied polyethylene waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder. KERDI-BOARD can be installed both vertically and horizontally using the screws and washers in our hardware assortment. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-wovenpolypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. Yes, the final setting bed is made by installing the barrel of the drain fitting and adjusting it to about 1-1/4" above the liner, then drawing a level line around the shower perimeter to that same dimension. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. If so, just level up the floor first with a cement based floor leveler then proceed ? DITRA will prevent OSB from water damage. KERDI has been evaluated according to the Standard Method for the Testing and Evaluation of Volatile Organic Chemical Emissions from Indoor Sources Using Environmental Chambers, Version 1.1 for California Specification 01350 and found to comply with the VOC requirements. Henry makes one called liquid backerboard that is designed to get to a feather edge over OSB or ply (I'm sure on ply, double-check over OSB). Podcast 529: Members-only AftershowHow Good is Good Enough? Invictus, by Henley. Have you looked over the Ditra website? You have a plastic moisture barrier behind the walls, and a PVC liner under the floor. Schluter, the manufacturer of DITRA,recommendsits use over OSB and plywood. Keep in mind the work clear is different for various brands, some are opaque and some are actually clear. The use of really cold water might give you an extra minute or two. The time to dampen the Hardi is before you put thinset and tile on top. :). Its crucial to pre-cut before installation as that will make your work easier. In Which Areas Should DITRA Be Installed Over OSB? Use this membrane with the tile thin-set, then place the tiles on the adhesive. Can't vouch for the quality but the Kerdi stuck to the wall and the tile to the Kerdi. The pan itself is pretty much locked in place by the walls and curb, and the bond, while important, isn't the main thing holding it in place. I knew better than to start another thread! Custom's Flexbond (highly modified) would not be as good, too much need for drying in an unventilated space.Bill. 4. and KERDI-SEAL-MV at the mixing valve. Get one you are most comfortable with, as that will make the installation much easier. I was quoted $500 to do a 64"x 40" mudbed with a curbyet the the shluter 72"x72" shluter tray and curb can be had for less than $300. residential bathroom installations designed for foot traffic. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. I need to get rid of the old trap and cap off then tie in a new trap. Due to its thin perimeter height, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an ideal choice. It shouldnt be too thin or too thick. 3. Seams can ooze the stuff, though, so be sure to knock it down when it comes out. DITRA and DITRA-XL provide uncoupling to prevent cracked tile and grout. With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. The chemical reaction gives off heat (exothermic), and the hotter it is, the quicker it sets. That's what it was designed to be applied over in most applications, but I'd use 3/4" ply for the seating area. Mix a bit more than you think you need and get after it. RedGuard is not harder to adhere to. Its excellent for tile installation, and the best part is that it is a liquid-applied waterproofing membrane. If you cannot or do not wish to recess the floor or use a ramp, the use of additional materials to raise the bathroom floor is another option. IOW, you have to be fast. Sorted by: 4. Cover the joints with KERDI-FLEX. A couple of questions: What color grout are you planning to use? Kgphoto Veteran Contributor Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA I think I'd get it well dampened before covering with the deckmud and maybe painting a slurry of cement or some thinset to help bond things. I accidentally poked a hole through the Schluter-KERDI while installing the membrane. ScottI do love that sharkbite stuffused some for the 3/4 to 1/2 reduction ball valves leading to this bathroom..its hard to trust but it aint leaked a dropa little too expensive though.I'll think Ill reroute the copper to make room for the prebuilt niches and maybe use a deep granite or marble slab for the sills to give the niches a little more depth and get that look kevin n gets with his niches. This doesnt have to be a cause for concern. The substrate must be clean, even, and load bearing. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Once you install KERDI over the drywall panels, they will be completely protected from the water and vapor in your tiled shower. Will OSB Suck Moisture from the Mortar Used to Install DITRA? Bonded waterproofing and vapor-retardant membrane, Waterproofing strip for use above movement joints, Waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels, Preformed waterproofing corners for curbless shower applications. Thats because the thinset, once applied, cures very quickly. How are you going to handle the butt joints perpendicular to the joists of your new and old OSB? It's easier to get things level when applied thicker, but that may not be what you want because of height stackups. I will check. About 1/4" off with a 6 ft. Level. WebI asked Schluter support about type of thinset under Kerdi shower tray to be installed over OSB. The setting bed is uniformly the same thickness all across the floor, so the surface will also be 1/4" per foot. . Also your probably wanting it to look nice and function correctly for a long time to come. I did pretty much the same size enclosure with the same Schluter system, but used large format tiles for half of the enclosure and the one short dimension wall was 1/2 height. Excellence is its own reward! 173 and followed their instructions, laying down 3/4 OSB down and If I went the silicone route, and left let's say a 1/16" joint, tape edges of both pieces and completely filled the joint would you see any problems? 1. the Kerdi pan with the corner membranes. Use your rubber mallet to help things along. Ditra allows modified thinset to lay the Ditra down, but requires unmodified TS when setting the tile on the Ditra. What material is used behind shower walls? With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8 or 3/4 plywood/OSB In a perfect job, it will waterproof. 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Is 1-1/2 '' ( 38 mm ) high moisture barrier behind the walls good, too much for!